Classics Thread

[resu]

A thread for learning and discussing Greek and Latin.​

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How to Learn Latin​

The best method for learning Latin is a series called Lingua Latina per se Illustrata by Hans Oerberg. LLPSI uses the direct, or natural, method for teaching languages, which means that the textbook itself is written solely in Latin, and the student is expected to grasp the meaning of the text through context, images, and symbols. If you're unfamiliar, it may seem impractical, but it's surprisingly efficient. In the English-speaking market, the series is published by Hackett (Focus Imprint). It's the biggest publisher, too, so if you're living elsewhere, these books will probably be available to you. If not, there aren't many differences between publishers, so you should be fine to order whatever's available. And if you're unsure, just PM me.

Base Course​

(1) Familia Romana, the first textbook of the series; (2) Exercitia Latina I, a supplementary set of exercises; (3) Latine Disco, a short guide in English to each chapter of Familia Romana; (4) Grammatica Latina, a Latin morphology of all the forms covered in Familia Romana; (5) Glossarium, a Latin-English, and vice versa, dictionary of the words used in Familia Romana and its ancillaries. There are also two supplements to be read concurrently with Familia Romana: (6) Colloquia Personarum and (7) Fabulae Syrae. And if you want extra practice, there's (8) Nova Exercitia Latina I, a complementary set of exercises, which, though from another publisher, is still integrated with the series and useful nonetheless.

Besides these, Hackett publishes A Companion to Familia Romana (and another to Roma Aeterna), but I don't recommend them because they move the instruction too much into English (Latine Disco is a pamphlet in comparison). If you want even less English, there's a Latin guide to the series written by an Academy Vivarium Novum instructor. For self learners, however, I'd recommend using it along with Latine Disco. It's not published anywhere, but you can download the PDF here (beware of the occasional typo, though). In any case, I think it's more instructive to read the textbook chapters before the guide, and similarly, don't make the use of the Latin-English dictionary a habit: it should be a last resort. Try to keep yourself in the language as much as possible.

Intermediate Readers​

(1) Amphitryo, (2) De Bello Gallico, and (3) Sermones Romani are adapted readers of classical authors. (4) Epitome Historiae Sacrae is a summary of the Bible in classical Latin. These books are read after Familia Romana.

Advanced Course​

(1) Roma Aeterna, the second textbook of the series, which continues where Familia Romana left off; (2) Indices, a compilation of an index of the series' vocabulary, another index of the names, and also a timeline of Roman history; (3) Exercitia Latina II, the second supplementary book of exercises; (4) Instructions and (5) Latin-English Vocabulary II, which, despite the inconsistent naming scheme, are the respective equivalents to Latine Disco and Glossarium of the base course.

Advanced Readers​

(1) Aeneis, (2) Ars Amatoria, (3) Cena Trimalchionis, and (4) Catilina are, similarly, adapted (now less so) readers of classical authors and are read concurrently with Roma Aeterna. And beyond these, the Italian publisher of LLPSI, Vivarium Novum, has added a few more readers to the series: (5) Bucolica Carmina and (6) De Rerum Natura.

Series Order​

Base Course:

• Familia Romana
• Colloquia Personarum (after each chapter (1-24) of FR)
• Fabulae Syrae (after each chapter (26-34) of FR)

Intermediate:

• Amphitryo (order of these doesn't matter)
• De Bello Gallico
• Sermones Romani
• Epitome Historiae Sacrae

Advanced:

• Roma Aeterna (Ch. 36-40)
• Aeneis
• Ars Amatoria
• Roma Aeterna (Ch. 41-45)
• De Rerum Natura
• Bucolica Carmina
• Roma Aeterna (Ch. 46-47)
• Cena Trimalchionis
• Roma Aeterna (Ch. 48-56)
• Catilina

And that's the end of LLPSI. By this point, you'll be able to read just about all the Latin you encounter. Here, I'll offer my last bits of advice. The most necessary thing for this series is to read and re-read often! And if you want to be able to understand spoken Latin, and eventually speak it yourself, you'll need to listen, too (e.g., this). Find a routine, and stick with it. As for pronunciation, there are two main variants: classical and ecclesiastical. To put it simply, almost everyone uses the former, and Catholics use the latter. (So use the latter!) Also, you'll find some Latinists stress the importance of observing vowel length (short or long) in pronunciation. My own opinion is that you shouldn't strain yourself with a meticulous pronunciation that nobody gets right, anyway. Pay attention to and memorize these vowel lengths (macrons) in reading and writing, though. An overview of these pronunciations is in Latine Disco. For my part, when I was first learning, I listened to this speech by Luigi Miraglia many times over and tried to imitate his pronunciation by reading along with the subtitles. Finally, though so much information may seem overwhelming, I think it's better to have it all at the beginning so that you don't struggle needlessly later on. Start with the base course, pace yourself, and in time, you'll get through it all.

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How to Learn Greek​

The closest parallel in Greek to LLPSI is Athenaze, originally published by Oxford University Press. Vivarium Novum subsequently acquired the rights to make an Italian version of Athenaze, and in the process, they expanded the text much beyond the scope of the original English edition and improved the layout to more nearly resemble LLPSI. The trouble is that, unlike LLPSI, much of Athenaze is written in the native language, so of course, Vivarium Novum's edition, which is superior, is also written in Italian.

To go into more depth, the English version splits each chapter into two seperate parts. The first part, alpha, is a vocabulary of new words for the following reading, the reading itself, the grammar and exercises for the reading, and an essay on ancient Greek culture. The second part, beta, repeats the sequence but with a classical and biblical excerpt instead of the essay. By contrast, the Italian version joins together the readings, grammar, and exercises; moves the vocabulary from an isolated section into footnotes; brings the essay on Greek culture to the end of the chapter; and replaces the classical and biblical excerpt with a summary lexicon. Most importantly, it extends the readings of each chapter and adds margin notes in the manner of LLPSI. If you're curious, I put together a comparison (of a chapter from each) here.

Vivarium Novum's edition, then, has the vocabulary footnotes, grammar, exercises, and essay on Greek culture in Italian. So I compiled an introductory guide to the course. A description can be found within. I also found a translation (I don't know whose) of the first book's enchiridia. But to be sure, what matters most are the readings, which is why we're using the Italian edition, anyway. So long as you can understand them, you're on the right track. And be sure to use Vivarium Novum's Subsidia (linked below), which has useful exercises for each chapter (all in Greek!).

With that out of the way, there are fewer books in the Athenaze series, so I'll just go through them here. Vivarium Novum's base course consists of the aforementioned first Athenaze textbook, which comprises 16 chapters; the first Meletemata; and the first and second Quaderno di esercizi (Exercise Books). The advanced course adds the second Athenaze textbook, which continues to 30 chapters, and the second Meletemata. There are also four ancillary readers: Ephodion I, Ephodion II, La Tavola (Table of Cebes), and the Odyssey. (These books are harder to find in the US, so I linked to the Italian site where I bought each of them.)

To be continued...

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Useful Resources​

philolog.us -- An online Greek and Latin dictionary

Perseus Latin -- A collection of Latin texts with an integrated parser (i.e., click on a word for its definiton)

Perseus Greek -- Same as above but for Greek texts

Vivarium Novum Subsidia -- Resources to pair with LLPSI and Athenaze

Dickinson College Commentaries -- Greek and Latin texts with commentaries, reference grammars, readings, maps, etc.

Anna's Archive -- Find whatever PDFs here

I'll continue to update this with more resources. And let me know if there's anything to improve in this guide.

 

[resu]

I don't know what the word limit is on posts, so I'm reserving this post in case I need the space later on for the Greek guide.

 

[SowiesoGroyp]

I don't know what the word limit is on posts, so I'm reserving this post in case I need the space later on for the Greek guide.

it's currently 20,000 characters

 

[AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH]

From learning Latin and Greek to Hebrew and Greek thanks martin jewthur.

 

[muttonhead]

larper final boss.

 

[SowiesoGroyp]

classics groyp

 

[TelosGroyp]

It's been roughly 6 months since I've read any Latin, and I learned using a more traditional textbook

Latin for Beginners

www.gutenberg.org

Left off at Caesar and adjusting to the word order (i.e. understanding in the order it's written as opposed to scanning the whole sentence and understanding as I would something expressed in English) gave me the most trouble. Vocabulary as well.
I'd eventually like to read some philosophy, both classical (Cicero) and early modern (Leibniz), but not really in a rush. Would you recommend reviewing the basics with Familia Romana or would an intermediate reader be fine?

 

[$lave]

Luke smith has a good article on learning Latin: https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/learn-latin/

 

[resu]

It's been roughly 6 months since I've read any Latin, and I learned using a more traditional textbook

Latin for Beginners

www.gutenberg.org

Left off at Caesar and adjusting to the word order (i.e. understanding in the order it's written as opposed to scanning the whole sentence and understanding as I would something expressed in English) gave me the most trouble. Vocabulary as well.
I'd eventually like to read some philosophy, both classical (Cicero) and early modern (Leibniz), but not really in a rush. Would you recommend reviewing the basics with Familia Romana or would an intermediate reader be fine?

If reading fluently gave you the most trouble, Familia Romana would help with that. Fluency in reading comes from extended reading of text you understand. You can skip on the ancillaries, and just work through the main textbook. Although it's the textbook of the series, it's really more like an annotated reader but with a grammar explanation and exercises after each chapter (all in Latin). After that, or even alongside it, you can start De Bello Gallico, which is an abridged reader of the first, third, and fourth books of Caesar's Gallic War. Its margins are filled with notes in simple Latin explaining every unfamiliar vocabulary word (from FR) and grammatical construction. By the end of the course, you'll be able to read Cicero fine (there are selections in Sermones Romani, Roma Aeterna, and Catilina, progressively longer and less adapted), and I've never read Leibniz, but the Neo-Latin authors I have read were not troublesome.