♱ Body of Christ ♱

[muttonhead]

great. hell sounds like a vacation at this point.

 

[eugen]

great. hell sounds like a vacation at this point.

reddit

 

[muttonhead]

mad?

 

[muttonhead]

from reddit:

If Sedevacantism is true, then the Catholic Church is false, which means that Sedevacantism is false.

Matthew 16:18 "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it".
If the papacy has been hijacked by enemies of the Church in the 1960's, capable of organizing a false ecumenical council, capable of reversing liturgies, dogmas and teachings to destroy it from within, it means God has abandoned His Church. And if this is true, the logical conclusion is that the Catholic Church is not God's church, since He wouldn't have abandoned it if it was.
If Catholicism is false, the dogmas upheld by the Catholic Church would at best be called into question, especially those unique to the Catholic faith. And without the authority of a 2000-year-old institution, theological support for these dogmas would be nil, as Church authority would be non-existent; apostolic succession would no longer be a reliable source for the faith; ex cathedra statements would be mere opinions and ecumenical councils would be useless.
The problem is: sedevacantists accept the dogmas of the Church up until the 1960s, when it was "hijacked". But if the Church is false, it has always been false, as well as its dogmas. Therefore, by denying the legitimate continuity of the papacy, sedevacantists deny the entirety of the Church's teachings, and therefore follow utterly useless dogmas, doctrines, and liturgy.
How would a sede respond to this?

also found this argument against sedevacantism interesting:

The biggest problem with sedevacantism is that it ignores the doctrine of universal and peaceful acceptance. See, that a man is Pope belongs to a category known as dogmatic facts. Now, there are three ways that something can be infallible, one of which is the ordinary and universal magisterium, where all the bishops in union with Rome scattered throughout the world agree that something must be held.

If a man is accepted as Pope by all the bishops of the world, then it is a dogmatic fact that he is Pope, an infallible dogmatic fact by way of the universal and ordinary magisterium.

The doctrine of peaceful and universal acceptance states that if a man is accepted as Pope by the world’s bishops peacefully and universally, then he really is Pope. And - this is key - this peaceful and universal acceptance heals all canonical defects at the root. So, it would not matter if a man was excommunicated, or if there was some defect with the conclave. The vast majority of sedevacantist arguments are invalidated by this reality.

However, there is another thing to consider, which is that sedevacantism is impossible If Catholicism is true because it violates the Catholic faith.

Most sedevacantists hold that the last valid Pope was Pius XII. But, the Pope is chosen by the cardinals. All the cardinals from the last Pope they consider valid are dead by now, so there is no way to ever have another Pope short of God coming down from Heaven and personally selecting another.

And the Church has used other methods to choose Popes in the past, but this is what is laid out in canon law. Canon law can be changed, but that requires the Pope. If there is no Pope, there is no way to change the method of selecting a Pope, and without cardinals, there is no way to select a Pope. See, it’s a circle. This violates Vatican I, which says that the See of Peter has perpetual successors - forever, until Christ comes again.

 

[muttonhead]

epic diaperning of sedes in the replies:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/xqdu9j

No Saint has EVER claimed a similar theory; sedevacantists rely on theological hypotheticals to litigate their claim. The best of saints dealt with obstinate and evil popes. We should do the same, if we live under one.

good enuff for me!


WE ARE SO FUCKING BACK . it got a little rocky there for a minute but we are back .Catholicism is saved guys.

I AM A MEMBER OF THE ONE TRUE CHURCH. SEDES ARE DEMONIC NIGGERS AFTER ALL

 

[muttonhead]

If all popes since V2 are illegitimate, it means there are no more legitimate bishops. which means the situation cannot be corrected. Just how, in their view, are we supposed to get a new legitimate pope? Their position implies the whole church is not legitimate. And that makes Christ a liar.

 

[muttonhead]

of course if the sede position is false, that still doesnt change how the criticisms coming from sedes are totally valid.....

liek... ok sedevacantism is false. now wat? the church is still totally compromised and retarded. what the fuck are we supposed to do now i feel sick

 

[SowiesoGroyp]

take of the training wheels and accept that the world is challenging and confusing and there is no perfect epic institution to perpetually handhold you through life.

 

[muttonhead]

if the church isn't a perfect epic institution then my faith is useless and im just a sucker.

 

[Slerk]

from reddit?
Catholics on reddit are debating women preists and gay marriage